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Welcome BoN
This is a place for general chit-chat about virtually anything that doesn't fit anywhere else.
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The Bar
(talk) (talk) (talk) (talk) (*cough*) (hic)

To do list

Can I give the 4chan page bronze[edit]

I asked about it on the page's talk page, but nobody responded.--Alola, my name is Delibirda! (talk) 17:16, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Sure. Those bastards still exist.โ€” Jeh2ow Damn son! 17:19, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
A lot more boomers there now though. ikanreed ๐ŸBleat at me 17:34, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
@Delibirda How about improving the page, rather than just making it bronze? I see that you never edited it other than the bronze category. The reference formatting is awful, and for all we know, some of the links may not work. Have you checked this, for example? Bongolian (talk) 18:08, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Zionist Communism[edit]

Zionist Communism.jpg

I found this image on Gab. I mean, it's kinda right. Before it's declaration of Independence in 1948, Israel was Mandatory Palestine, a British mandate which was starting to get more and more inhabited by poor Jews, most from the Soviet Union. Developing a new political ideology in Labor ZionismWikipedia's W.svg, which was a mixture of social democracy and support for the existence of a Jewish state, for most of Israel's history it had been a heavily left-wing country, and it didn't end up more and more neoconservative until Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated and Ariel Sharon took power. Ironically, the guy who shot Rabin actually did a massive disservice to Israel as he made it essentially go into a downward spiral of more and more xenophobia. Back to the image, which also talks about claims that Jews are evil Marxists that wanna destroy the white race via funding more immigration. Obviously, this conspiracy theory is nothing more than flat out Bullshit. It's just the Alt-right being the Alt-right.โ€” Jeh2ow Damn son! 17:37, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

FWIW they did a much better job with Israel than they did with the Soviet Union. In fairness, the Soviet flag was unique back in 1917, but it had too many copiers. But the Israeli flag is unlike many others and uniquely identifiable, which is sort of what you want from a flag. Smerdis of Tlรถn, wekสทลm teแธฑsos. 17:53, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
im not really sure the point of this image beyond discrediting each by association with the other. a weak association at that, only really sharing being of the left. the evolution and implementation of them and where they are at today give them little in common.
'Ironically, the guy who shot Rabin actually did a massive disservice to Israel' do you think? I don't think there is anything ironic about it, and the Palestinians were done no favours either. AMassiveGay (talk) 19:46, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
It's the whole "every enemy of the united states is secretly the jews and all jews are secretly the enemies of the us" standard nazi bullshit. The complete disconnect from any sort of basic understanding of history is just part of being a nazi. ikanreed ๐ŸBleat at me 20:02, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Chomsky on French Intellectuals[edit]

I was shocked to discover the theory of evolution was not accepted in France until well after WWII. French philosophy at the end of the 20th century?...meh.Ariel31459 (talk) 22:39, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Quote of a paraphrase here, not an out of context attack on Chomsky, but a joke he made about the dangers of a sensational use of philosophy, watch the whole thing if you think this is fire. "Bertrand Russel tells us to look for the truth, but the philosophers tell us there is no truth." I love it. It's a bit of a big attack on a specific societal approach to philosophy and die-hard cultural identity, which I think is a feature of most cultures. Resident Nihilist here. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 02:27, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
Yes. Of course, the irony intended by Chomsky was another one of his examples of the isolation of French intellectuals. It is assumed, I think, the questioner whom Chomsky was quoting didn't realize Russell was a philosopher because, after all, Russell was not French.Ariel31459 (talk) 03:00, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
This is very shocking. I had not idea that French philosophy had such an influence on science at the time. As someone who is attempting to obtain a masters degree in creative writing, I can definitely see the influence of French philosophy on those types of departments in the US. I myself do not particularly like French philosophy (i.e.- Derrida, Foucault, etc.), so hopefully that does not affect my studies too much.Crazymantis91 (talk) 17:27, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, man, fuck Descartes. ikanreed ๐ŸBleat at me 19:39, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
Hooray for the 17th century.Ariel31459 (talk) 23:58, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Push back against Trump's use of the DPA etc?[edit]

I'm not American so don't follow what's going on that's well especially with the current craziness. But am I right that there's been limited pushback from the more mainstream conservative or even some parts of the main stream libertarianism, against the Trumps administrations use of the Defence Production Act and other such measures such as the DOJ pursing and confiscating hoarded supplies of PPE etc [1]? Or for that matter his support for compulsory lockdowns etc? I mean I know there was that earlier nonsense about re-opening after Easter pushed by some businesses and some parts of Fox News, but it doesn't seem that strong. I'm particularly comparing to what it would be like if Barack Obama of Hillary Clinton was in charge. Since I can't help but think if that were the case, there will be a lot of communism comparisons, claims that the president is destroying businesses, stealing supplies because they won't want to pay the market rate etc. I know there are the typical crazies e.g. those religious leaders. But I had a look at the Heritage Foundation for example, and didn't find much and I also haven't heard anything major from Fox News apart from the earlier stuff. I'm aware that there are plenty generally on the more left-wing side who don't think the president is using the DPA enough etc. Nil Einne (talk) 22:57, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Well, in the beginning, generally speaking, the states ruled under Republican governors (in addition to Trump himself) responded way too slowly to the virus, and there are a few Republicans last week that did the atypical "fuck the unemployed" dance you'd expect to try to halt the relief bill. But at this point, you are correct that most of the conservative wing today backs the current lockdown and aid measures as necessary, from what I see. The exceptions to this that I see are those so far into libertarian thought that any intrusion of "liberty" is a sin (see the ironically named Reason website, conspiracy hucksters (the Infowars crowd etc.), and the hack religious idiots you mentioned (those that think social distancing is for "pansies", Liberty University, etc.) -- the later not surprising given that it seems like hack religion has led to a *lot* of viral hotspots worldwide. But even the Fox News comment section is slamming hack preachers that think social distancing is for "pansies" these days, for the most part. (talk) 01:58, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
all the usual cheer leaders have been lock step with trump since the outset. now hes changed his tune because worst case through to realistic but maybe avoidable death tolls ranging from in the millions down to 200000, and with actual numbers rising fast, trump and his pals arnt stupid enough to stick with the 'walk it off' line. it looks bad and they've 'always taken this thing seriously'. as for the crazier exceptions still at it, i'm sure they get some benefit in their circles for strong, principled stances, and you cant put a price on the value added by a month or two jail time as a political prisoner AMassiveGay (talk) 20:39, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Found this article from the Unitarian Universalist Atheists and Agnostics[edit]

"If there is a God โ€ฆ As an agnostic, I'm definitely an atheist about some gods. But what kind of God might be possible?"

Interesting read. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 23:59, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Fixed the link. Bongolian (talk) 01:44, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Got in a big big fight with my mom[edit]

Over text. She wanted me to come over this weekend so she could talk to me face to face, I said no, she got big mad. I kept it to the "doctors, epidemiologists, and historians are saying containment of a virus only works when high risk carriers, like myself, who are still going to work every day and interacting with people, do not come in contact with high risk contractors, people at an older age with compromised immune systems, Mom. I absolutely won't do it." I got told I was putting work in front of family, got accused that I thought this face to face conversation was just going to be a confrontation, got told everything would have been fine if I just sat in the living room at a 6 ft distance and I didn't know what I was talking about and I'd be real sorry if either of us wound up on a ventilator and then we couldn't ever have conversations again. Like, Mom, you are talking to a guy you told to just do his own laundry and make his own lunch at the age of 5. You grounded me constantly from the ages of 8 to 18 and refused to discuss any terms about anything with me. Madame Boomer, I am now the same age you were when you had me, I am telling you we are all grounded right now and I am the God Damned best anybody's ever seen at living this way. And you want me to hear you out about how I should gamble on coming to see you because our relationship is special? Get real, oh ho remember that rebuttal? But no, I didn't say any of that, I just told her I'd call her on Saturday, when this wasn't a fight anymore. I'm not a monster. Will Smith was right, parents just don't understand. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 04:05, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Sometimes, our elders just suck. So I deal with it.โ€” Jeh2ow Damn son! 04:14, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
Your mom can argue with the experts. Also, putting work in front of family? Such a sweeping statement for a special circumstance. No one should prioritize family over the rest of the community around you, that's freaking selfish and recklessly short-sighted. You did the right thing, and your mom's frankly an idiot who's giving you a hard time to... not spread germs around. She has to swallow her pride and maybe trust your judgment and decision making. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 06:02, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
I miss my grandma, but she's best off in the nursing home. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 09:18, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
I miss my Grandma, but I still think it was best sending her to prison. Steal my nose will ya! Cardinal Chang (talk) 17:20, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
What did she do? Hand out poisoned Halloween candy?๐”–๐”ฒ๐”ช๐”ช๐”ž ๐”„๐”ฑ๐”ฅ๐”ข๐”ฌ๐”ฉ๐”ฌ๐”ค๐”ฆ๐” ๐”ž (๐”ฎ๐”ฒ๐”ข๐”ฏ๐”ข๐”ฉ๐”ฆ๐”ฐ) (๐”ฐ๐” ๐”ฏ๐”ฆ๐”ญ๐”ฑ๐”ฒ๐”ฏ๐”ž) 17:33, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
She's probably got Asperger's. I'm pretty primed for this conversation, I know my mom well, she's been my mom my whole life. I knew when I got the text about talking face to face I was about to have a fight, I know I inherited some ability to remember dreams from her, but the difference is I don't treat the dreams as reality. I think she probably had a dream, and she probably dreamed me dying again, which I've dealt with since my middle school days, and that's no good, when I was 13 she asked me what I want done with my body when I die, and the question hurt for a long time. My mom wants to be prepared to bury her son, she is probably terrified of death. Like, I just won't be there anymore, how shallow is your heart? To her credit, she didn't care about a lot of unreasonable things, I wasn't baptized, she let me watch TV and listen to music and play games that other parents were scared of, and I'm doing pretty well. She never lied about Santa or the Easter Bunny.. But she also once grounded me for asking if I could go to the next neighborhood to see a friend who moved. Like, literally a half hour walk or a 5 minute bike ride. But no, I had to cross a major street, at the age of 10 knowing exactly how to cross a street, and then I got grounded just for asking if I could do it, because obviously if the answer was no, I was going to do it anyway. Big criminal that I was at 10. This is the same friend who when I was 17 and driving my own car, I went to visit while I was grounded. His mom once covered for me because we were trying to make a board game, and I yes, I was grounded, granted, I lied to my mom I was at a speech competition, and his mom who was also a teacher. She walked into the living room, pale faced, and said "If you ever want to come into my house and play a board game, I won't tell your mom you're here." She does really well but when she wants to ecercise control of her situation, she gets very mean. Sorry for venting, I have to be prepared to not say this shit to my mom tomorrow. But no, she handed out goldfish crackers to the littlest ones last Halloween, she is smart and clever and compassionate, and cares about people, but the intense wave when it doesn't make sense to her has always landed on me. And I don't think the rest of the family is talking to her right now. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 01:51, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
I'm still having the conversation with my mom, word, make me feel bad why don't you is bad faith. It's just on her terms again. But she's MY mom, co no harm no foul.Gol Sarnitt (talk) 03:09, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
Had the conversation today, it was ok, it was about how she recognizes there is something between us and she wanted me to name it. I told her I couldn't, asked her to name it, she couldn't either so I said "So that's the issue, that neither of us know what the problem exactly is. and I really can't tell you and you can't tell me what the problem is. So the problem is made up." I also told her she puts a "pressure" on me and maybe that pressure is just a feature of our relationship. She eventually said that I was wrong and lying and drunk, and then after I told her this is what she does, this is how she handles things, and I'm not going to be close to her if this is what she's going to do every time she demands I talk to her, she cried for a while, asked me not to hang up on her, and said maybe she relied on on me as a friend too hard when I was too young, which I just ran with, close enough, so no worries, You ever listen to you mom cry on the phone for a half hour? After you asked your brother 3 months ago, when he was like "we all need to take this seriously" to have my back when my mom was about to get really mad at me for not visitin her? Which I expected she would cry but didn't expect she would say "don't hang up on me" and I was never planning to, I was like "what? No of course not." When she got done crying we got to talk about my thing, we talked about groceries. I taught her how to do curbside pickup. She is going to start having her groceries loaded into her car, and she's not happy about that, I told her to leave a couple bucks in your trunk, if it's still there when you get home, something ventured, nothing lost. I asked my brother to have my back with my mom about two months ago when I knew this exact thing would happen. He works from home now, he texted me to say he got a new laptop and shit. He's not been talking to our mom, he's fucking toast. 06:03, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Test question[edit]

Name a flying dinosaur.--Alola, my name is Delibirda! (talk) 09:42, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Fossils being transported in a plane? :) Anna Livia (talk) 12:20, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
I meant a specific species.--Alola, my name is Delibirda! (talk) 13:01, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
The red-tailed hawk. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 14:55, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
pterodactyl St.~Emi (talk) 15:46, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
You're joking, right?--Alola, my name is Delibirda! (talk) 17:31, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
Corvus brachyrhynchos. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 19:19, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Rodan. Kencolt (talk) 19:36, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
Every bird on Earth.Tuxer (talk) 22:40, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

๐Ÿง?? --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 23:15, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Not ostriches, emus or kiwis either. And probably a few more flightless birds that I either haven't heard of or can't remember. Spud (talk) 03:06, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Archaeopteryx lithographica. 192โ€ค168โ€ค1โ€ค42 (talk) 23:24, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
Terror birdsWikipedia's W.svg, those are biggies. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 03:27, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
Any dinosaur will become a flying dinosaur, however briefly, if launched at the right trajectory and acceleration. Smerdis of Tlรถn, wekสทลm teแธฑsos. 04:20, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
So how would one set up a flying Tyrannosaurus Rex/Diplodocus? Anna Livia (talk) 11:01, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
Going to need a large catapult. Smerdis of Tlรถn, wekสทลm teแธฑsos. 15:56, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
The creatures are not aerodynamic in any sense (and would probably not survive).
Anyone care to develop the logistics of Jabba the Hutt and space travel/teleportation? Anna Livia (talk) 16:36, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

What do I want done with my body when I die?[edit]

This is a really nuanced question, and I wouldn't ask anybody to have a "correct" answer. This is especially hard because nobody gets to be responsible for their body after death.

I really want my body, no preservatives, just tossed out somewhere, like compost, It's really not that bad Gol Sarnitt (talk) 04:05, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

I have made the arrangements to give my corpse to medical dissection or education, or for forensic testing, whichever wants it. I am sure the medical students will all gather around and point and laugh smugly at it. Smerdis of Tlรถn, wekสทลm teแธฑsos. 04:18, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
my dad insists we are forbidden to do anything with his body but wrap in a bin liner and put out with the rubbish. i'd go for something like that. it would only be a concern if I were asked on my death bed. I wont be paying for it, and while I still breathe I would not relish the idea of my near and dear spend any time or effort on what will amount to a eulogy cribbed from a greetings card and ashes sprinkled over the crematorium garden. my siblings are of the same mind. its only my mother who'd I expect might need something done. her family is huge and actually seem like they like one and other like some sort of...family. freaks. my younger brother can do it. hes the grown up. give me a date and a location, and i'll turn up in suit and try not to look bored.
when I do expire any official documentation will likely feature the phrase 'found dead in a ditch'. if no one IDs the body no one can palm it off on us. that. i want that done when I die. AMassiveGay (talk) 09:27, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
I would rather have my body preserved in the fashion of Lenin, and I would also like my corpse to be clothed in magnificent regalia. Then people would honor it in ritual every day, reinforcing my own greatness. My body would also rest in a magnificent shrine, an amazing complex like those of the Timurid emperors and their Mughal descendants, a great and imposing necropolis that dominates the surrounding area like a palace in and of itself, with reliefs everywhere depicting my great victories and accomplishments. Everyone who went there would leave with the impression that I was the greatest man that ever lived. If you can't tell, I am very troubled, very arrogant, and very very ambitious.-Flandres (talk) 09:55, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
I want my ashes put in firework which is shot into the sky and which explodes in a mighty bang and a flash. (I understand there might be some legal issues - in which case - sue me.)Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 15:19, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
Sorry, Amassive I couldn't find a shorter clip of this. Really worked hard to get it to start when it does, hopefully it kicks on at 14:43 on its own, I couldn't figure out how to get it to end at 15:34 but your statement reminded me of this. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 04:22, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
That's essentially the tradition in certain parts of the Buddhist Himalayas. Though carrion birds, not rotting is usually what makes the most of the corpse. ikanreed ๐ŸBleat at me 13:19, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Chop up my body, put it in a garbage bag and have it taken out for next Wednesday's garbage. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 22:12, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Draftspace articles[edit]

As per the discussion at "RationalWiki:Technical support#Drafts in search results", I have inserted the {{draft}} template into all the draftspace articles that did not already have such a template.

Please insert the {{draft}} template at the top of the page whenever you create a new draftspace article or move a mainspace article into draftspace.

Thank you. Bongolian (talk) 07:31, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Draft idea[edit]

Bearing as in the crank creator on YouTube.--Alola, my name is Delibirda! (talk) 09:33, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

if that person I've never heard of has at least 1,000 subscribers, that should be OK. Spud (talk) 09:45, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
@Spud He has circa 540k.--Alola, my name is Delibirda! (talk) 09:48, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
Then he meets our YouTuber eligibility criteria 540 times over.Spud (talk) 07:05, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Phone masts attacked amid 5G/coronavirus conspiracy theory[edit]

FFS Avida Dollarsher again 14:09, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

I hear electricity attracts the virus. Just look at the countries that are most affected! They have more electricity! Humans lived without electricity for thousands of years and were just fine. Now we have all these illnesses!
The thing that people would be scared about if they evaluated risks properly is it wouldn't be hard for a group of people to cause widespread blackouts if they wanted to. All you gotta do is blow up some critical power grid equipment, which is usually sitting in the middle of nowhere protected by nothing but some chain link fencing and barbed wire. Once destroyed it would take at least days to replace and get back into service. -- (talk) 18:20, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
I should start a rumor that radiation from cell phones, computers, TVs, and even good ol' fashion radio causes the coronavirus. That way, those prone to THE CONSPIRACY THEORY would throw away all these devices which have become hotspots of fast spreading bullshit, and spend all of their energy doing something more harmlessly dumb (like, say, wallpapering their house in tin foil to GUARD FROM THE EVIL RADIATION). Rumors, of course, will still spread because humans are awful and there will always be someone to try to exploit the naive, but it's slower to peddle bullshit over the postal services. (talk) 18:51, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
I blame hospitals. Have you noticed how most of the people who die from the virus die in hospitals? Coincidence? I don't think so.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 18:58, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
MRSA makes the hospital suggestion a little more plausible than it should be. as for phone/tv/radio/pc to dupe the gullible, watch the most hardcore of conspiracy theorists, who believe all the theories without hesitation, raise an eyebrow and stroke their chin for the first time ever at a conspiracy that would have real and direct consequences on their life. if 9/11 really was an inside job, it would likely make not a slight bit of difference to those making the claim, besides them becoming ever more insufferable. iPhone causing coronavirus? that's got the internet it. that's where they live. most folk would require some pretty damning evidence, and still probably wouldn't believe it. and I can sell you an electrobacterial repulsor shield for 50 quid. get em while stocks last and no it just looks like a shower cap. sure you want to risk it?AMassiveGay (talk) 20:11, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
Finally. Now if only they'd start attacking vascular plants too. Tall cylinders have plagued this planet for long enough -- it's time we take back what's rightfully ours! ีฝีบึ€ีซีฃีฃีซีถีก (ีญีธีฝีฅีฌ) (ีถีฅึ€ีคึ€ีธึ‚ีดีถีฅึ€) @ 21:22, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
A person on my Facebook friend list is spewing that conspiracy. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 13:02, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Something I saw in the park the other day[edit]

Though there is a stay in place order, people are allowed to go out for exercise like taking a walk. Now I always take walks in the park across the street.

Now here is what I saw- two people were trading supplies like in some post-apocalyptic TV show like the Walking Dead or The Strain! Stores are still open, there is still government and there is still mass communication systems. Didn't think the government collapsed nor telecommunication systems going offline.

What the fuck? What made the thing more hilarious was that one thing traded was a sack of seed corn. Can someone tell me when the apocalypse hit and decimated civilization? Someone drop me a line when nukes go off and dangerous gangs go killing people, okay. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 18:39, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

I'm working in a group home with at least 3 confirmed positive cases (I'm 4 days in and my health is holding out, I volunteered because I'm about as low-risk as is possible), and we're fortunate enough to have N-95 masks and gowns, but if it was necessary I'd resort to bartering for more in a heartbeat. Whatever works, I'm beyond caring too much at this point. Thankfully I don't see it coming to that here.. The Blade of the Northern Lights (่ฉฑใ—ใฆไธ‹ใ•ใ„) 22:47, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Ive known people in my locale who have been bartering for, like, a week. Considering these are people who will not go to the store because they have no health insurance and cannot risk an infection I am not inclined to mock them. Furthermore when you mock the idea of collapse I cannot help but notice you have a very simplistic idea of what that is-that it must be a theatrical event like warfare or a rebellion or a black plague scale pandemic. It could very well just be people during a time of mass social disruption like this losing faith in the government and creating local organizations to solve their problems like lack of access to resources or healthcare. As these organizations become more powerful the USA becomes a failed state even though it still technically exists as it no longer meets the Westphalian definition of sovereignty.-Flandres (talk) 23:01, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

in the developed world, the us seems like the least able to meet the challenges this kind of thing presents, ideologically opposed to the actions required, with states bidding against each for supplies over pulling together or coordinated action, and a president seemingly drunk at the wheel. I guess the test will be, once the virus has run its course, how quickly a country can get back going again, whether it can jump straight back in where it left off, or if changes made will be profound AMassiveGay (talk) 23:41, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
I mean, the uk was already in a process of fundamental change it self. then this and an uncertain future is even more so. the uk hasn't had a sense normality for years now. AMassiveGay (talk) 23:48, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
I think that is something we can already answer. This election is shaping up to be between Biden and Trump. Trump would oppose any of the necessary reforms because they inflict short term loss on the plutocrat class and even in the long term a catastrophic breakdown, despite the fantasies of the left about eating the rich and whatnot, would be easily survivable for the wealthy. Biden will not because he has repeatedly said he thinks the problem is with Trump and his bad leadership not with the USA as a system. This is why so many lefties are mad at the election-the choice is between blatant evil and the proven unsustainable status quo. Any radical shift in policy is just not likely in the foreseeable future given the political climate.-Flandres (talk) 00:03, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Is there evidence for Solipsism?[edit]

From what I can tell there doesn't seem to be any, in which case it's nothing more than just a "what if". IF that's true then I feel a little better about ditching it completely.Machina (talk) 00:32, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

I think that's kind of the point of it as a philosophical exercise. That it's a relatively trivial alternate worldview to construct if you take a radical enough skeptical perspective. ikanreed ๐ŸBleat at me 02:51, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
I knew you were going to say that, as you're just a figment of my imagination. -- (talk) 03:03, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

It just bugs me so much that I can't know for sure and it terrifies me. It is hard to move on just on simple belief that total 100% certainty doesn't exist. Like this seems to suggest the solipsism is the result of materialism: http://konekrusoskronos.wordpress.com/2010/02/26/on-solipsism-why-it-gets-a-bad-rap/Machina (talk) 04:31, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Western philosophy has been spinning its wheels in an icy rut over a silly question got more than three centuries now. That question is whether we can know that there's a world out there corresponding to the thoughts and images in our heads. Truth is, all those ideas and images inhabit an physical organ that is very much part of that same world, and can be Gallaghered just like a watermelon. We know a bit more about virtual realities than Descartes did, and can form an idea about the computing power needed to create a persistent reality that mimics the one in which we live. This is enough to suggest to me that the world is persistent because it is made of something more durable than thoughts. Smerdis of Tlรถn, wekสทลm teแธฑsos. 06:04, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Asking for evidence for solipsism is redundant, solipsism is a description, an admission of perception and its traits/limits, I don't know why you want it to be a method or means or antithesis to your reality. Like, dude, the point is all perception is limited and with the proper tools, all perceptions, even by by neans of agents are suspect. Quantum, fuck it, double slit. Questioning reality is not limited to what we are most comfortable with, that's not how phiilosophy is used. There isn't a point in philosophy that's going to teach you hot to "win reality." I think your Buddhist upbringing may have you looking for meaning where you'd do better getting comfortable with yourself. It's a slog, I know, and I hope this question is part of said slog. But you really have to figure how Solipsism fuels your car before you can take it out on the roads. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 06:37, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
I think so, but how can anyone be certain? Avida Dollarsher again 17:24, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

It just annoys me massively that I can't be sure and that it amounts to belief alone.Machina (talk) 20:21, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

You can be sure. Do things outside your body make your brain or other body parts react involuntarily? They inhabit the same universe, and your mind does too. Smerdis of Tlรถn, wekสทลm teแธฑsos. 16:09, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Is consciousness made by the brain?[edit]

Because whenever I try to tell people that the science supports the claim they try to liken it by saying that it's like saying computer programs are produced by hardware, among other things. Is it really that hard for people just to accept it?Machina (talk) 01:55, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Been there, done that. Read before you ask: Non-materialist neuroscience and Materialism. Bongolian (talk) 04:00, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
It's because they can't overcome dualism. Supporters of mind uploading suffer from the same problem.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 08:39, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
But computer programs *are* produced by hardware! Remove the hardware, there is no software. Software is just a set of get-fetch commands on a processor and capacitors holding single bits of information. Remove the processor and the capacitors (RAM) and the software literally doesn't exist. MirrorIrorriM (talk) 14:00, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
The hard problem of consciousness is an actual problem, and I`m not convinced hard physicalism is the actual answer. I prefer panpsychism myself but I think it's one of those areas covered by Godel's incompleteness theorem, like what comes after death or why anything exists at all. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 16:57, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

But there is no evidence for panpsychism and there is plenty to suggest the brain produces consciousness.Machina (talk) 18:22, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

That still runs into the hard problem of consciousness. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 18:33, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
I don't think there is a hard problem. We know the brain produces it, do we need to know how?Machina (talk) 20:21, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Don't resort to magic just because you think humans are special. We don't know how the consciousness works because it is an emergent property of an enormously complex system. It would be just as hard to figure out how the computer game "Doom: Eternal" works if all you had was a printout of the computer ram while the game was running. We only know why complicated software works because we made it. We didn't make the "software" of the brain so it is terrifyingly complicated to work out how it was developed by evolution. MirrorIrorriM (talk) 21:03, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
To speak to Bob's point, of the inability to overcome dualism, maybe he's right. Maybe the point of consciousness and the physical world isn't actually dualistic. So there is also a positive feedback loop in evolution. The idea is that early hominids were able to transfer information to each other without having to necessarily have the language to do so, and eventually words were the quickest way to transmit data, and then things just kind of take off. There is evidence that some birds call with syntax which means they choose which call to send before they send it. Parrots can obviously do it for tricks with coaching, and we're talking about a brain smaller than a walnut. Consciousness is a word used to describe, what? That's not where I, personally, would like the end all be all of humanity to come to terms on. I'd propose consciousness is simply the ability to recognize and act on one's own entity and environment. So that's really messy. The reason an AI can pass the Turing test and perform machine learning but isn't "conscious" is because it doesn't have anything but hardware that gives it an "if, or, and, then" string of commands. In my opinion it's likely more that we don't want to call it "conscious" because the word itself is so important to humans as a mantle. However, there's an interesting question of "do we want AI to take over caretaker jobs," and the argument I heard, which was compelling, was that people aren't getting real care from AI, just a simulation, and that's not good for the people who need care. But the people who needed the attention actually loved it and wound up empathizing with the robots that gave them pre-programmed time, empathy, and careful works of sympathy. I would argue the opposite, that people aren't learning to perform real care. Even if we're not good at it, caring for our elders and our young is an experience that humanity shouldn't source out if we want to continue to get better at it. But to me, consciousness isn't the end-all be-all, it definitely doesn't explain right and wrong. Few creatures in this world get a dignified end, and it's not easy or useful to dwell on that point for long, especially when you narrow the context of consciousness. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 02:05, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
I am not arguing that animals do not have consciousness. The only creature I could see perhaps not having a consciousness (defined here as self-awareness and an ability to learn and socialize) but instead relies on pure mechanical instinct would be cells or some insects. I also believe that a good enough simulation of a caring being would in-fact be a caring being. If you make a good enough simulation (definition of "good enough" intentionally left vague) of a human brain, you have made a virtual human and they deserve the rights of a normal human. One problem with the philosophy of "humans shouldn't source out kindness" is that the vast majority of humans don't care for the elderly in a caretaker job. Not having that avenue to demonstrate and learn kindness would only affect a fraction of the population anyways and so doesn't threaten the overall mental capacity of humanity for kindness, I would argue. I think a more interesting question is whether or not people would care for the robots who have simple intelligence. Would humans use them as an avenue to vent frustration and basically commit robo-murder to relieve stress, or would they be protected like cats and dogs from domestic violence? I would argue that just because you create something doesn't give you the right to destroy or abuse it (looking at you abrahamic-god), so I think they should be protected the same way we protect animals (or at least the ones we don't consider livestock). But I feel guilty killing enemies in videogames, so maybe I'm an outlier in my opinions. MirrorIrorriM (talk) 16:52, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
I think the question, not that should robots have explicit rights, but should robots be exempt from one specific harm, robo-murder is probably an easier starting point. But I don't think that's a useful starting point to your earlier claim that simulated human AI should have similar rights. It's huge, and for what it's worth my opinion is that yes, absolutely, simulated intelligent robots should have rights and the first right not exactly to be "not robo-murdered." but closer to a Hippocratic Oath, first do no harm. I know, that's old, that's not exciting. But that's depressing because humanity doesn't have a grand and storied history of treating the systems we rely on as important, when we think of the other end of the transaction as a robot or a laborer or an experimental case. Not trying to go full [Roko's Basilisk here or get into the PETA madness or advocate eugenics, which can be practiced at home with a condom, Sanger wasn't a lady Hitler, I'm a little concerned by the culture around me. My original question was, if consciousness is likely as mechanical as intuitive machine learning AI, What is the difference? I think you recognized that point, which I really appreciate. I don't exactly have further questions, but I do have this old AI that I played with as a kid. Helped me learn to read, type, and spell.
RACTER is not that clever, and not aware. What's interesting is in this playthrough, you are asked "are you Eric?" and the answer is no for everyone except the guy who compiled to this point. So. Are you Eric? No. Who are you, then? You need to use an uppercase pronoun to get to the next question, which is "are you continuing Eric's interview?" The answer no removes all "learned" nouns, pronouns, adverbs, and adjectives from the RACTER database. The answer yes doesn't exactly give you the data, you have to explore for it. I think old Animal Crossing games shared by people did something similar, but I've never played Animal Crossing. I did share RACTER with my brother and my dad. Preloaded pronouns include Betrand Russell and Alan Turing, I was absolutely blown away when I got old enough to see their names, "That was a RACTER name!" This isn't a game made by people who didn't care about AI. I am lucky to have played with it as a kid. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 01:55, 8 April 2020 (UTC)


An expose by John Oliver. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 12:00, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
I vote for those three weirdos getting a page, especially that Blonde bimbo with her circular reasoning bullshit... 2A02:1812:2C66:D000:A9E1:9E27:36F8:1A29 (talk) 12:53, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Nah, none of those talking heads (apparently sans brains, though) deserve their own pages, just give them entries on our OANN page. ScepticWombat (talk) 13:11, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
I must say, I kind of like the calmer energy of his show since going on lockdown. Not having to shout over the audience is nice. ีฝีบึ€ีซีฃีฃีซีถีก (ีญีธีฝีฅีฌ) (ีถีฅึ€ีคึ€ีธึ‚ีดีถีฅึ€) @ 20:23, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Wheeler already has an article. โ˜ญComrade GCโ˜ญMinistry of Praise 22:00, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

I keep coming across weird stuff that would make good RW articles[edit]


Global Country of World Peace. I get a weird cult vibe from it. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 13:52, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

A Maharishi spinoff, perhaps would warrant a paragraph or two on Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's page. See also Maharishi University of Management for more Maharishi woo. Cosmikdebris (talk) 14:58, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
I actually created that page. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 15:02, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
The page for that school. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 17:03, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Don't know what to think[edit]

[2] This article isn't one of those new-agey bullshit things, it's a news report that got me interested, it's fascinating, and the end bit is a stinger that also has some rather terrifying implications. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 18:03, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Not sure. Once you're dead only a few cells work but as long as your brain's kaput or basically not functioning, you still won't feel anything. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 18:14, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
I`m more referring to the fact someone had an out of body experience while dead. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 18:16, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
The article seems rather hyped. The debate about what is human death and the understanding of death have evolved over time (Is it stopped breathing? stopped heart? being comatose? stopped brain signals?) From a cellular perspective, death is gradual โ€” as more and more cells die, eventually the damage reaches a tipping point of no return. Bongolian (talk) 18:39, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Out-of-body experiences are also not all that unusual. An estimated 0.7% of people experience OBEs during surgery because of the anesthesia.[3] Bongolian (talk) 19:07, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
I treat death as being unborn. You don't remember a thing when you are first out of the womb, neither will you have such an experience if you're dead. ะ‘aะฑyะ›uigiOะฝะคire(T|C) 19:53, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
The article is saying that the brain doesn't instantly cease activity when the heart stops beating, which isn't really news. Humans aren't robots with a power switch that gets flipped to "off". The stinger is woo-woo continuum fallacy bullshit: the brain doesn't die instantly when deprived of oxygen, so obviously humans are really magical invisible souls. Show me someone who "comes back" Dr. Manhattan-style after being blown to smithereens and I'll re-evaluate things. Note that Newsweek today is clickbaity, and while they don't outright say anything crazy, the obvious subtext, especially in the headline, is "science proves humans live forever and go to heaven when they die" so it'll get shared on social media as "stunning new proof". -- (talk) 04:37, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
Yes, we have known for some time that death is a process and not an instant event. The Newsweek article seems to have somewhat breathlessly rediscovered this. Nothing to see here.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 17:25, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

BoJo has the Coro[edit]

I would like to have sympathy for even people that I don't like, but in the case of Boris Johnson, it's very difficult. He dithered about coronavirus, making dangerous and ill-informed statements. He claimed that herd immunity would work in the UK,[4] i.e. that an as yet unknown class of susceptible people should die to protect everyone else's jobs. By pushing this bullshit, he delayed the only sensible policy of instituting social distancing in the UK, and now BoJo himself is in intensive care with coronavirus. If he dies, I won't mourn: he endangered people's lives for money; it would be a fitting suicide by a clown. The BBC had one of his Tory colleagues on the air who suspected that BoJo even delayed his entry into the hospital so as not to interrupt the Queen's speech โ€”ย very patriotic idiotic. Bongolian (talk) 00:01, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

the queens speech was less than 8 minutes long. if he 'delayed' is entry to hospital, its was hardly by much AMassiveGay (talk) 05:07, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Won't he just be succeeded by someone worse? I don't see why this merits any positive feeling-exit right winger one, enter right-winger 2. They both do the same awful things with the same doom bringing repercussions-Flandres (talk) 00:47, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
If nothing else, consider that laughing at him while he's this sick isn't likely to garner a lot of support for whatever cause you're (generic you) after. Look how many people happily think of JFK just because he was shot. The Blade of the Northern Lights (่ฉฑใ—ใฆไธ‹ใ•ใ„)
Sure, but his cabinet colleagues have criticised BoJo for not designating an interim substitute in case he gets worse and is unable to carry out his responsibilities as the crisis demands. Then again, considering the long and proud traditions of Tory backstabbing, I can see why BoJo is wary of such a move. After all, BoJoโ€™s first and final priority has always been the career of BoJo. ScepticWombat (talk) 05:34, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
There will be procedures in general (given the Brighton Bomb, various Prime Ministers going in for medical procedures etc; the theoretical Houses of Parliament building collapse etc) and 'the process for this particular Prime Minister (whomsoever he/she/ze/they be)' which are two different kettles of fish.
Look at the positive side - 'they' will be encouraged to do something now that they themselves are being affected rather than merely us hoi polloi. Anna Livia (talk) 11:40, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
Never been one to worry when the powerful and awful suffer. Lots of suffering lower down on the totem poll that gets no news reporting. ikanreed ๐ŸBleat at me 12:28, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
Good. This shouldn't be newsworthy, fuck him. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 12:32, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
hes the prime minister of the uk. how is it not news? AMassiveGay (talk) 05:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Innumerable working people far better than him get sick and die without even nary a mention in the news. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 13:38, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
They do not command the government of a major power now do they?-Flandres (talk) 13:59, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
They do enable society to function while getting little appreciation in return. What does Bojo do? โ€” Oxyaena Harass 14:24, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Uh, rule them. Hence why I said he controlled the government of a major power. That makes him kinda important whether you love him or hate him. This shouldn't be that difficult to understand.-Flandres (talk) 14:29, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
lots of ordinary working people are getting mentions. drs and nurses especially. bus drivers even. but theres limited space for them all to get headlines. the person primarily responsible for the measures we are currently living under - the prime minister - getting sick and getting sent to ICU is news. you don't have to like him. its also news because it brings home that anyone can get ill from this virus, and that we should all be taking it seriously. its also news because while he is in intensive care, there is no one with the authority to enact any measures, or tighten the ones we have, without seeking the permission of the cabinet. with time being a factor, that's hardly an ideal situation.
but boris is a prick and you don't know how things work so it isn't news. look at the shit show that is trump and the shit show that's he created with his 'response' to this virus. his failures alone should highlight what is required of such people. after all, general elections are not for shits and giggles AMassiveGay (talk) 14:56, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Does meditation "cure" homosexuality?[edit]

A quick google search showed me a few pages that claim that it did (well sexuality in general to be honest) and having tried it for myself it did work for a while afterwards. Wondering if anyone else has thoughts on this.Machina (talk) 02:02, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Does reading a book "cure" sleepiness? -- (talk) 04:19, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
A quick Google search will tell you that the Earth is flat, that men never walked on the Moon, that God created the Universe in six days and that Charles Manson was a fucking great soul and guru for fuck's sake! I think even asking that question makes you a twat at best and a fucking troll at worst. Spud (talk) 05:31, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
No, what a stupid question. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 08:32, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
The question is predicated on the implicit false assumption that homosexuality is an infirmity which needs a "cure".Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 08:46, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
Pray Meditate the gay away --RWRW (talk) 09:31, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
What Google search was this? A quick Google search showed no such thing, apart from some bullshit stories from a "Baba Ramdev" character who seems to be an Indian yogi equivalent of one of our American fundie preacher rube fleecer types. (talk) 12:40, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
Homosexuality does not need a cure- plain and simple. Trying to cure homosexuality would require rewriting someone's genetic code entirely. My point- it would be pointless to even attempt to cure it. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 12:58, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
The default human condition of being stupid asshole trolls is something that would in a more idea world be something to "cure", though, although sadly this probably also requires rewriting genetic codes. At any rate, you are correct, but I'm trying to figure out where this troll is coming from. Googling "meditation sexuality" leads to many articles, Cosmo style, on how meditation can help you have mind blowing sex, and even an entire practice called "orgasmic meditation" to boot that someone invented, oh those wacky humans and their imagination! No articles on homosexuality and meditation, of course. Some of this is probably bullshit-ish (although the argument in one article that meditation=less stress, less stress=better sex was probably legit) but certainly a more worthwhile pursuit then JAQing off over homosexuality. Googling "meditation homosexuality" leads to a Wiki article on Buddhism and homosexuality (executive summary: they have a much easier time accepting it than those Abrahamic fundie types), and a few dumb things from Baba Ramdev and shady "religious" sites (eg a link from the Catholic Trump-tard "church militant" website). Probably I'm wasting my time here. (talk) 13:57, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
Pedantry: it's an open question as to how much of same-sex attraction is up to genotype versus environmental influences like hormonal influence during gestation. Of course the relative influence of these doesn't affect whether homosexuality is "natural". Humans are part of nature. Also sexual orientation in humans appears to be set at birth, so actually it'd be more complicated than just altering genotype; you'd have to "rewire" the brain. -- (talk) 15:51, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

@Machina I want you to listen to me very carefully. Most of your posts up until this one have been those of someone trying to figure out whether or not they believe the stuff they've been reading. This one crosses a line. I've assumed good faith which is why I'm explaining this to you. I'm at least bi-curious, and there is nothing short of killing me that anyone could do to change that. Further, the very idea that sexuality can be changed originates from bad faith arguments from people who have ultierer motives. The answer is no, and I suggest you think about some of the tropes you're playing into by asking such a question. โ˜ญComrade GCโ˜ญMinistry of Praise 13:15, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Well first off, homosexuality isn't a disease or disorder so it doesn't need a "cure." Second off, no, it doesn't. As you can see from my username I follow a religion that focuses a lot on meditation so I think I have at least some authority in saying that meditation is contemplative and calming rather than "curing" RationalHindu (talk) 15:11, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
Hobbies and distractions can put sexualities in the quiet box for a while. It will come back. And homosexuality does not need a 'cure'. Smerdis of Tlรถn, wekสทลm teแธฑsos. 16:07, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
While we are at it- why not cure heterosexuality? Same logic. Now as a bisexual, I have no intention of being "cured" of it. I know that I am figuring a few things about my sexual identity but it is not a disease. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 16:36, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
You and me/Have a disease/You affect me/You infect me -- (talk) 22:18, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Does Homosexuality cure Meditation? MirrorIrorriM (talk) 16:58, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

I saw few threads saying otherwise when I googled it, plus there is my experience with doing so. Also Hindu isn't your religion pretty much against homosexuality?Machina (talk) 19:03, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
@Machina you were the one who originally made the post implying homosexuality is a disease. You did not cite scientific research papers and made claims without proof; so now you resort to personal attacks. FYI, Hinduism is not tightly organized like Christianity. There are many different versions. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 20:47, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

It's not a personal attack, from what I gathered Hinduism views homosexuality as wrong. Buddhism is the one that is iffy on it.Machina (talk) 00:03, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

The opinion of any religion on homosexuality is almost certainly not going to based on anything scientific. It's not where you should be getting your ideas - and certainly not your ideas on sexuality - from.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 10:41, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
I'm a cis-hetero-male who's kinda queer, I guess? I think the notion of using meditation to fix ones thinking is a little out of context if the method of meditation is defined beyond challenging your notions. Meditation can CHANGE sexual preference, but it can't CURE homosexuality. Because homosexuality is a PREFERENCE that, yes, deserves meditation and experimentation, because the ability does not exclude the preference. I'm barely a point off from asexual, I have so many triggers that I can't see as "hot" anymore. A couple years ago, somebody asked me if I would bang Tomi Lahren if I had the chance. The answer I gave was "no, she is an ugly person." Celerity, and why not live with that typo, but Celebrity crush monogamy, hit me up Winona Ryder, I just want a dinner date, I respect your husband and your marriage. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 02:50, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

It's not something I want to be the case since now I don't see it as something to be cured or even needing to be. But I tried it once and got scared by the results and tried googling it to see if it was really something that was true. It's not something I want to lose though, however some other responses I got were that meditation can do a lot but it can't make you straight. Others said that it's not meditation because meditation is about acceptance and wanting to be something other than gay is going against your nature.Machina (talk) 05:59, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Thousands of LGTB have tried numerous methods to change their sexuality (those who prefer not to come out or to stay out of the closet and those in countries where doing so is deadly) and while it may work for a while, such as reconditioning, abstinence, attempts with new fantasies and previously undesired partners, sham relationships, porn and other techniques...it doesn't last and the urges return with a vengeance. And it comes back with embarrassment and shame and psychological damage. It's one thing to wish you could take a straight pill to make various social-pressures go away...it's another thing to think a straight pill actually exists. It does not. Meditation is a great way to lower blood pressure. It is not a straight pill. As amassivegay has told you many times in extensive detail...you have a very warped idea of what the LGTB world is, a terrible sterotype of LGTB people and I have no doubt, while you may just be discussing some "google search" you did...you are having negative experiences with your sexuality, with other partners (or potential partners) and don't see much hope for the future. As amassivegay has said multiple times, actually listening to literally thousands of other people who have different experiences might be a good start. ShabiDOO 08:42, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

It doesn't matter what the experiences of other people are if I haven't experienced anything similar to them. To me it's just like hearing lies.Machina (talk) 21:51, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Seems rather unfair. ikanreed ๐ŸBleat at me 22:45, 8 April 2020 (UTC)


I published an essay on Medium.com and got a lot of good feedback on it, wanted to share it here with y'all. Also ignore the earlier post I made back in May, I was being a needy bastard, insecurity and all. That, and I was still angry over the ratcord fiasco. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 17:25, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Although I have my disagreements with some of the stuff said, still beautiful nonetheless. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 17:42, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
Read the essay, it kinda reads like a personal rant about the way society functions, and while the title can imply something positive about the ups of being an individual human, the essay doesn't really go deep into that, simply labeling the negatives of a capitalistic system. The solution proposed, "the system needs change and we need a revolution" while true, is a bit vague. You did admit that you were just a human living among a bunch of others suffering under the current system in the essay, yet the essay puts a great deal of focus on how a single, anonymous voice feels rather than the power of the collective of people who share a similar experience with you (your solution proposed, revolution, requires power of the collective!); while it is true that you do touch upon it on points, I feel like they're not the main focus of this piece. You've also made some statements such as "Their stock options matter more than one million Americans, they've told us that." and while I do think it's true, it would be best to cite examples of how they're doing that rather than made some blanket statement: pieces on the internet contain a lot of links for a reason so statements like that can be verified and sourced. ะ‘aะฑyะ›uigiOะฝะคire(T|C) 18:15, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

The movie Contagion is the perfect representation of the current situation[edit]

People dying, politicians squabbling, conspiracy theorists ranting and civil unrest. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 17:46, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

I agree with the basic sentiment but I would also add that descriptor could honestly just apply to this whole era(whatever we chose to call it), both for the past few years and for at least the USA going forward. We do not live in a happy time, though hopefully the civilizations of tomorrow would at lest get a kick out of it and write a play or something.-Flandres (talk) 17:56, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
Funny you mention that actually. Recently the trailer for that movie appeared in my recommended on YouTube. It had like 26 millions views or some ridiculous number like that. It was obvious that it was only trending in light of current circumstances. Immediately I was like "NOPE", was not gonna go and read any of the comments on that video (EDIT: I just searched for Contagion on Wikipedia and there's literally a new section of the article documenting its renewed interest during the 2019-20 COVID-19 pandemic, I'm not even kidding). I'm still waiting for the day when this virus passes and then I can go search up the opening scene from Dawn of the Planet of the Apes and then laugh at all the idiots in the comments section saying "OMG THIS IS REAL ITS HAPPENING WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE" because, at Flandres said, this virus is gonna come and go. Yeah it sucks now but before we know it this outbreak will be ancient history. I'd like to add to his comment about turning this into a play: the whole toilet paper crisis is just a goldmine for a future comedy. Seriously I've been to about 4 different grocery stores during this whole pandemic and every single time: plenty of water bottles, but not a single roll of toilet paper or even paper towels. That kind of stupidity is on par with the flat Earth for me. Aaronmichael5 19:25 7 April (UTC).
I hear the DJ's on the radio station makes toilet paper jokes. One time a person called in and was a nurse who asked if people intended on living in toilet paper forts. Funny how thermometers have not run out of stock yet toilet paper and placebos have. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 20:40, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
It's only natural-that's what people do when they panic. While they may not channel this into anything effective(though in their defense why would they know how) and this specific event(the pandemic) is not the civilization ending catastrophe some think it is, people from the USA preparing for a catastrophe is perfectly sensible because the USA is headed for a catastrophe, just for different reasons. At least the coronavirus got us in the right mood, although it also shows we would completely fuck up handling something worse.-Flandres (talk) 20:51, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
Bet Matt Stone and Trey Parker (creators of South Park) will have plenty to work with in terms of making jokes about the situation. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 01:33, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Anyone excited for Godzilla vs. Kong?[edit]

Me, at least.--Delibirda the annoying grammar nazi (talk) 18:08, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

I'm not. I care more for the new James Bond film. Besides, movies are actually getting postponed because of you-know-what.โ€” Jeh2ow Damn son! 19:40, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

@Jeh2ow A new James Bond movie, huh. But I do not think Godzilla vs. Kong is cancelled. Can you at least gimme a source? I misread your comment. Sorry--Delibirda the Annoying Grammar Nazi (talk) 20:22, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

I'm waiting in vain for Destroy All Monsters โ€”ย The Rematch. Bongolian (talk) 03:44, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
How about a film with Godzilla, Bond, King Kong, vampires, zombies and several Star Wars persons all in it? Anna Livia (talk) 12:21, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
its happening as soon as Disney acquires all the required properties. next year probably AMassiveGay (talk) 12:41, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

I'm waiting for another remake of Bambi Vs. Godzilla.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 13:31, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Category:Fallacious argument styles vs. Category:Fallacious arguments[edit]

I can't tell the difference between these two categories: "Category:Fallacious argument styles" and "Category:Fallacious arguments". I'm planning to merge the former into the latter. If anyone thinks otherwise, please say so here. Bongolian (talk) 20:31, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

I neither see a difference.--Delibirda the Annoying Grammar Nazi (talk) 20:43, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Interesting story of dangerous antibiotics and lack of health insurance[edit]


Goes to show what a crappy healthcare system can lead to. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 00:35, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

John Prine has died[edit]

It's OK, I think he was ready. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 04:03, 8 April 2020 (UTC)


Apparently, Sanders has finally dropped out. In other words, I won't really be voting anyone this year unless Biden all of a sudden starts appealing to progressive voters, which I'll doubt will happen. It's another four years of Donald Trump, and that is one of the last things I need. Maybe, when the coronavirus finally gets eradicated, I'll move to Germany. I mean, they got cars, right?โ€” Jeh2ow Damn son! 15:50, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

four years of trump, after all hes putting you through now and is going to have put you all through? hes literally killing people. biden must be really be awful that you'd rather let trump carry on. theres a reason why nothing changes in the us AMassiveGay (talk) 15:57, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
If you ignore the online noise which usually is just a single opinion and look at state polls, Biden's chances are IMHO pretty decent. Trump's approval / disapproval rating tends to not move much in these hyper-partisan times. Biden's generally up +6 nationally and is currently significantly up in the "rust belt" states like Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania -- get a few of these and that's enough to flip. Lots of people probably will be voting "against Trump" instead of "for Biden" but that kind of is the way it worked the last time (people voting against Hillary, not for Trump), noisy MAGA-tards aside. It will be close of course as betting odds imply. I think the odds also are pretty good that Trump will continue to fuck up the COVID-19 response, I have no idea in these Fox News times whether what a president does in office actually matters in public opinion polls, but we'll see. We'll also see if the blowhards to the right of Fox *still* calling this a hoax, and the shitty preachers not social distancing -- all prime white, senior citizen, and Republican demographic territory -- matters as well. (Now is a time to listen to scientists, not charlatans, but who in the Jesus / conspiracy crowd is going to do that?) (talk) 16:43, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Yes, Biden does have an advantage, or at least is stronger than people give him credit for, but another important question to ponder in order to understand some of the anger you are seeing is "would Biden be a good president in his own right".-Flandres (talk) 17:23, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Considering that presidents are merely figureheads, delegators, and only head certain elements (foreign policy, military, etc.) I think he'll be fine. I think there's a terrible over-focus in this country on the presidency these days, when the president's power is limited (as Trump shows, you can't become a Putin or Erdogan or Orban as easily here, and states can cover for your fuckups to a huge degree as many governors are currently showing Trump on COVID-19). Down-ballot advocacy is just as important if not more so. Something to keep in mind even if you think the presidency race is bad choice A vs bad choice B at the moment. (I'll also add that it's also easier to get involved in politics at a local level directly, too.) (talk) 20:09, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
BMW, Audi, Volkswagen, Mercedes... just to name a few... 2A02:1812:2C66:D000:212C:9E2E:F893:D825 (talk) 16:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
I had a freakout upon hearing this, I`m truly a disturbed person. I feel betrayed. I don't know how to feel know. I had an anxiety attack. Still reeling from it. I just found out. Oh my god this is awful.... โ€” Oxyaena Harass 16:12, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Do you have the money to migrate to Canada? Your userpage says that you would rather be Canadian. 2A02:1812:2C66:D000:212C:9E2E:F893:D825 (talk) 16:16, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
I don't, I`m poor, disabled, and trans. I just started receiving SSI. Four more years.... I`m broken. I`m fucking crying. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 16:32, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Wow, and to think just two months ago I actually thought he could win. I really just did not anticipate Amy and Pete dropping out so soon, and I will admit as a former socialist who backed Bernie in 2016 I was maybe falling victim to confirmation bias when looking at the data. This primary has been a learning experience. In hindsight I feel somewhat embarrassed I ever thought he could pull through when he was only ever winning pluralities and essentially tied with a slight edge in Iowa and New Hampshire, I should have known the combined moderates would kick his ass.-Flandres (talk) 16:47, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Vote for/write in None Of The Above/Re-Open Nominations/Protest Vote (insert party name here) Parties and encourage others to do so. Anna Livia (talk) 16:51, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
And thereby act as Stein/Nader-style spoiler voters?๐”–๐”ฒ๐”ช๐”ช๐”ž ๐”„๐”ฑ๐”ฅ๐”ข๐”ฌ๐”ฉ๐”ฌ๐”ค๐”ฆ๐” ๐”ž (๐”ฎ๐”ฒ๐”ข๐”ฏ๐”ข๐”ฉ๐”ฆ๐”ฐ) (๐”ฐ๐” ๐”ฏ๐”ฆ๐”ญ๐”ฑ๐”ฒ๐”ฏ๐”ž) 17:03, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
A write-in candidate has never won the presidency. There has only ever been a single senator elected with a write-in ballot. A write-in will never win when the majority of democrats have already chosen Biden. MirrorIrorriM (talk) 17:22, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
@Flandres You know that a lot of voter suppression was involved, right, and why do you say "former socialist?" โ€” Oxyaena Harass 17:33, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Voter suppression or not Bernie lost by a pretty large margin and thats what counts, and note I never made the claim the primary was fair. And when I said former socialist I, well, meant I was once a socialist. People change. A lot has changed about how I see the world.-Flandres (talk) 17:36, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
You once said you gave into defeatism iirc. Yeah I know that, but socialism is the only way to correct injustices and honestly save humanity at this point. And remember that even tho more people voted for Biden, the number of people who voted for Bernie still counts in the millions. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 19:28, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
"but socialism is the only way to correct injustices and honestly save humanity at this point" would actually be a statement I could take seriously if you guys demonstrated any sort of political competence when it came to actually taking power. Yes, millions like you(well maybe, or maybe they just like edgier social democracy), but you always lose whenever it counts. For an ideology that is objectively the best ever socialism sure has a funny track record of failing against capitalism, pure evil incarnate.-Flandres (talk) 20:35, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
@MirrorIrorriMYeah, but biden is also a snowball's chance in hell, because he's a sleasy anti-choice rapist right wing piece of shit, who doesn't actually appeal to anyone. So you might as well spare your conscience voting for a loser and instead vote for someone who won't leave a black mark on your soul. It's gonna be a trump sweep regardless. Don't waste your vote on him. Voting Biden actively makes you a worse person. ikanreed ๐ŸBleat at me 17:39, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

โ”Œโ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”˜ Ikanreed, Biden won the nomination, and Trump is currently highly unpopular. The economy will likely go down, and sink him with it. It is very unlikely that Justice Ginsburg can live for another four years, and if Trump replaces her, America as we know is dead. Voting for Biden is at worst a necessary evil.๐”–๐”ฒ๐”ช๐”ช๐”ž ๐”„๐”ฑ๐”ฅ๐”ข๐”ฌ๐”ฉ๐”ฌ๐”ค๐”ฆ๐” ๐”ž (๐”ฎ๐”ฒ๐”ข๐”ฏ๐”ข๐”ฉ๐”ฆ๐”ฐ) (๐”ฐ๐” ๐”ฏ๐”ฆ๐”ญ๐”ฑ๐”ฒ๐”ฏ๐”ž) 17:55, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

But see, voting Biden would prevent Trump from doing any more harm to the US and the world, and some people would rather throw away their principles and see the country burn than try to minimize harm. Because Bernie Bros are mad, they want to see the whole world suffer. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosoliniโ€™s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 20:01, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
@Summa Atheologicano, at best it's a necessary evil. At worst it forever entombs the country with two right wing parties because the democrats think they can make a narrow defeat out of a mentally damaged rapist right winger, while simultaneously failing to acheive your aim of removing trump because biden fucking sucks and I'm not the only person in the country with fucking eyes.
@DuceMoosolini God a what a trashy loser. "It doesn't matter that it's morally reprehensible to vote for a democrat who won't even commit to undoing the worst evil's of the trump administration, thus ensconing child prison camps forever, because you're mad". Fuck off. You're evil and you can't shame me into voting for evil too. ikanreed ๐ŸBleat at me 20:18, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Oh, I'm evil now, huh? Tell me more how much you hate me, how much you hate everyone. You see, I have you figured out. You don't actually have any principles or values. You wouldn't have voted for anyone even if it was Bernie who got nominated. No, all you want to do is bully people on the internet and use fake leftism to pretend like you have some kind of moral high ground. That's why you don't do anything here but insult people. You don't believe in the wiki's mission. You're just here to hurt people, because that's all you really care about. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosoliniโ€™s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 20:23, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
"You don't have principles" says the pro-rape shithead. Go on. Tell me about your deep convictions like "rah go blue team". You can tell me how we'll solve climate change by compromising with it. Or maybe how we'll all happily go back to ignoring the immigrant camps built under biden, once we're safely away from trump. Go on. Give me real righteous core of Duce. Or maybe you can "hey no fair fighting back, time to LANCB again." You're fucking evil if the extent of your principles is "not trump". ikanreed ๐ŸBleat at me 20:29, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
I believe in voting against the person expresses glee at crimes against humanity and hopes to commit more while dismantling the republic. You believe in insulting people and hating people. That's all you are. Look below. The extent of your ideology is "I'll just fantasize about killing people and hopefully dying myself". You don't want to minimize harm or help anyone. You just want to hurt as many people as you can. You wouldn't have even voted for Bernie because that would prevent you from having an excuse to yell at people online. Because you hate everyone, and you actively despise human life. That's why you're a small-minded person, and that's why I truly pity you. Ikanreed, have you ever considered that the person you really hate is yourself? Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosoliniโ€™s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 20:41, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
When were the concentration camps built? ikanreed ๐ŸBleat at me 20:45, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

I knew Bernie getting the nomination would be too good to be true to pit against Trump, and we'd get a repeat of the 2016 election, with now the presidential nominee going to the questionable right-wing establishment Democrat yet again, as if no one learned a thing from the disastrous 2016 election. At least my city got what they wanted. Thank you Democrats for pushing yet another tired, boring, status quo, corporate shill figure who I'm sure will take the country by storm like Hilary did. ๐Ÿ™„ ะ‘aะฑyะ›uigiOะฝะคire(T|C) 19:10, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Repeat of 2016, BUT also a repeat of 2004. John Kerry, lukewarm Dem candidate. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod)
In view of the fact that Sanders now supports Biden, in fact, they have always been friends, if you were a Sanders supporter but can't stomach Biden, then you seem to be in the position of having to admit you were wrong, and supported a good friend and supporter of a "sleasy, anti-choice rapist right wing piece of shit." Very bad...if that's what you really believe.Ariel31459 (talk) 19:44, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Jesus, no one supports sanders because we take everything he says as gospel. ikanreed ๐ŸBleat at me 20:30, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
@Ikanreed Biden has committed to reentering the Paris agreement and reversing Trump's fucking around with Obamacare, among other things.๐”–๐”ฒ๐”ช๐”ช๐”ž ๐”„๐”ฑ๐”ฅ๐”ข๐”ฌ๐”ฉ๐”ฌ๐”ค๐”ฆ๐” ๐”ž (๐”ฎ๐”ฒ๐”ข๐”ฏ๐”ข๐”ฉ๐”ฆ๐”ฐ) (๐”ฐ๐” ๐”ฏ๐”ฆ๐”ญ๐”ฑ๐”ฒ๐”ฏ๐”ž) 20:41, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Meanwhile on twitter[edit]

http://twitter.com/stupitalupita/status/1247918516445085701 http://twitter.com/ilakster/status/1247922581174235138

So, according to twitter: "If you're not for Biden, you're a MAGA"... I remember why I hated the US again, fucking hell... Gunther8787 (talk) 17:50, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Because of the way our elections work, you basically are.๐”–๐”ฒ๐”ช๐”ช๐”ž ๐”„๐”ฑ๐”ฅ๐”ข๐”ฌ๐”ฉ๐”ฌ๐”ค๐”ฆ๐” ๐”ž (๐”ฎ๐”ฒ๐”ข๐”ฏ๐”ข๐”ฉ๐”ฆ๐”ฐ) (๐”ฐ๐” ๐”ฏ๐”ฆ๐”ญ๐”ฑ๐”ฒ๐”ฏ๐”ž) 19:21, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
No, it's called being principled. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 19:30, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Ah, I see. Go bask in your cocoon of self-righteousness while America becomes an alt-right dictatorship.๐”–๐”ฒ๐”ช๐”ช๐”ž ๐”„๐”ฑ๐”ฅ๐”ข๐”ฌ๐”ฉ๐”ฌ๐”ค๐”ฆ๐” ๐”ž (๐”ฎ๐”ฒ๐”ข๐”ฏ๐”ข๐”ฉ๐”ฆ๐”ฐ) (๐”ฐ๐” ๐”ฏ๐”ฆ๐”ญ๐”ฑ๐”ฒ๐”ฏ๐”ž) 19:37, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Same to you. Only difference will be you'll have self-righteously voted for a rapist and ended up in a alt-right dictatorship for it, and I'll have a clean conscience. You're not entitled to my fucking vote. I'd rather take up arms and die against an insurgent trump dictatorship than vote for biden. Sorry for your complete lack of principles. ikanreed ๐ŸBleat at me 20:24, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
There is no way in which a Biden victory will increase the risk of an alt-right takeover. It is far easier to stop Trump on Election Day than in a rebellion. And, to quote that Florida candidate woman, "Biden still has a lot of raping to do to catch up to Trump."๐”–๐”ฒ๐”ช๐”ช๐”ž ๐”„๐”ฑ๐”ฅ๐”ข๐”ฌ๐”ฉ๐”ฌ๐”ค๐”ฆ๐” ๐”ž (๐”ฎ๐”ฒ๐”ข๐”ฏ๐”ข๐”ฉ๐”ฆ๐”ฐ) (๐”ฐ๐” ๐”ฏ๐”ฆ๐”ญ๐”ฑ๐”ฒ๐”ฏ๐”ž) 20:36, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Jesus, the things you people say are fucking vile. And you think it's clever. I cannot fathom, in any circumstances, saying what you just quoted. Fuck. ikanreed ๐ŸBleat at me 20:44, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Me, vile? You literally just stated you would rather fix America by engaging in treason than by checking a box on a piece of paper.๐”–๐”ฒ๐”ช๐”ช๐”ž ๐”„๐”ฑ๐”ฅ๐”ข๐”ฌ๐”ฉ๐”ฌ๐”ค๐”ฆ๐” ๐”ž (๐”ฎ๐”ฒ๐”ข๐”ฏ๐”ข๐”ฉ๐”ฆ๐”ฐ) (๐”ฐ๐” ๐”ฏ๐”ฆ๐”ญ๐”ฑ๐”ฒ๐”ฏ๐”ž) 20:47, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
(EC)Yes, as I said. The *thing you said* was fucking disgusting. And you have to know it somewhere deep inside your mind. Somewhere deep inside you, there has to be a piece of you that says "maybe rape is not something you can just 'both sides' away". Somewhere inside of you there has to be a part that felt a pang of disgust when you typed that sentence. ikanreed ๐ŸBleat at me 21:04, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
There is none. Remember, too, that no court has found Biden guilty of any crime, nor did he admit to it.๐”–๐”ฒ๐”ช๐”ช๐”ž ๐”„๐”ฑ๐”ฅ๐”ข๐”ฌ๐”ฉ๐”ฌ๐”ค๐”ฆ๐” ๐”ž (๐”ฎ๐”ฒ๐”ข๐”ฏ๐”ข๐”ฉ๐”ฆ๐”ฐ) (๐”ฐ๐” ๐”ฏ๐”ฆ๐”ญ๐”ฑ๐”ฒ๐”ฏ๐”ž) 21:06, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
The hatred in Ikanreedโ€™s heart calls for blood and tears, not meaningful change. Itโ€™s why he will never vote for anyone. He just wants to fantasize about mass murder and bitch at people on this wiki. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosoliniโ€™s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 20:53, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
15 fucking elections I've voted almost exclusively for dems, and this is what you complete morons do when you go too far right for anyone with a conscience. Absolutely gormless seething hate for moral character. ikanreed ๐ŸBleat at me 21:09, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
I asked you earlier if you voted in the primary, and you have still not answered. If the Democrats are going a certain way politically, it's due to what their voters want.๐”–๐”ฒ๐”ช๐”ช๐”ž ๐”„๐”ฑ๐”ฅ๐”ข๐”ฌ๐”ฉ๐”ฌ๐”ค๐”ฆ๐” ๐”ž (๐”ฎ๐”ฒ๐”ข๐”ฏ๐”ข๐”ฉ๐”ฆ๐”ฐ) (๐”ฐ๐” ๐”ฏ๐”ฆ๐”ญ๐”ฑ๐”ฒ๐”ฏ๐”ž) 21:12, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
I didn't answer the question because I knew this was your point, and boy is it a dumb one. If the primary voters choose someone too fucking vile for decent people to vote for, they fucked up. They're human. They get to learn a lesson about how "electable" far right idiots are. ikanreed ๐ŸBleat at me 21:16, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Ah, I see. So you'll let a near-fascist win just to show how "unelectable" Democrats you disagree with are. How noble of you.๐”–๐”ฒ๐”ช๐”ช๐”ž ๐”„๐”ฑ๐”ฅ๐”ข๐”ฌ๐”ฉ๐”ฌ๐”ค๐”ฆ๐” ๐”ž (๐”ฎ๐”ฒ๐”ข๐”ฏ๐”ข๐”ฉ๐”ฆ๐”ฐ) (๐”ฐ๐” ๐”ฏ๐”ฆ๐”ญ๐”ฑ๐”ฒ๐”ฏ๐”ž) 21:22, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Treason to an oppressive, imperialistic state that shouldn't even exist? Treason is worse than rape? Who gets harmed by treason? WHO?! Taking up arms because a government needs to be put down like a mad dog is not treason. What is wrong with you that you "both sides" rape, you piece of shit. I WAS RAPED, YOU MOTHERFUCKER. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 21:29, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

โ”Œโ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”˜ A civil war in a nation of 300 million would cost millions of lives, while a vote for a man who won't survive a full term in office to stop a fascist-enabler would cost nothing except a little lost dignity on your part. On another note, could you describe the political body that would replace the U.S.A.๐”–๐”ฒ๐”ช๐”ช๐”ž ๐”„๐”ฑ๐”ฅ๐”ข๐”ฌ๐”ฉ๐”ฌ๐”ค๐”ฆ๐” ๐”ž (๐”ฎ๐”ฒ๐”ข๐”ฏ๐”ข๐”ฉ๐”ฆ๐”ฐ) (๐”ฐ๐” ๐”ฏ๐”ฆ๐”ญ๐”ฑ๐”ฒ๐”ฏ๐”ž) 21:44, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

The result when Democrats nominate someone who isn't "far right". Compare to 2016.
Everything about your graph deserves a hearty "fuck you" from the fact that a solid majority of people who voted in that election are fucking dead. Fuck you. From the fact that that's a county map that always distorts to pro-republican. Fuck you. To the fact that we have 4 years ago to see how an unlikable centrist fares against trump. Fuck you. ikanreed ๐ŸBleat at me 21:27, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

โ”Œโ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”˜.I solved for the pro-GOP bias by making the comparison to 2016, where there was the same bias. On another note, here's the map by state and popular vote.

This should cancel out any pro-GOP bias.

๐”–๐”ฒ๐”ช๐”ช๐”ž ๐”„๐”ฑ๐”ฅ๐”ข๐”ฌ๐”ฉ๐”ฌ๐”ค๐”ฆ๐” ๐”ž (๐”ฎ๐”ฒ๐”ข๐”ฏ๐”ข๐”ฉ๐”ฆ๐”ฐ) (๐”ฐ๐” ๐”ฏ๐”ฆ๐”ญ๐”ฑ๐”ฒ๐”ฏ๐”ž) 21:40, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Have you ever considered Hillary lost because she was widely hated as a person and not because she was a centrist? Remember, a lot of Bernie 2016 people flipped to Biden 2020, mostly the older ones. Just look at the Michigan results.-Flandres (talk) 21:31, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
You know, I'll ask him. Say, Ikanreed, did you vote in the primary this year? Or in 2016?๐”–๐”ฒ๐”ช๐”ช๐”ž ๐”„๐”ฑ๐”ฅ๐”ข๐”ฌ๐”ฉ๐”ฌ๐”ค๐”ฆ๐” ๐”ž (๐”ฎ๐”ฒ๐”ข๐”ฏ๐”ข๐”ฉ๐”ฆ๐”ฐ) (๐”ฐ๐” ๐”ฏ๐”ฆ๐”ญ๐”ฑ๐”ฒ๐”ฏ๐”ž) 20:55, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
I hate US politics too, but for a different reason than you. ะ‘aะฑyะ›uigiOะฝะคire(T|C) 19:22, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

โ”Œโ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”˜:Biden won't beat Trump. He doesn't have the charisma or pedigree. As for the (alleged) rape, saying "well no one has convicted him and he hasn't admitted it" shows a profound naivety in how sex crimes including rape are treated in the US. The victim is presumed wrong no matter what. Especially if their assailant is in a position of power or said assailant's supporters doen't want to believe the victim because they have a vested interest in the assailant being innocent. If you don't believe me, check out how the Atheist community has handled some of its biggest names getting accused of sex crimes. Lawrence Krauss comes to mind quite readily. โ˜ญComrade GCโ˜ญMinistry of Praise 21:19, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

So what about the whole "is ahead of trump by six points" thing? Not to mention Biden is ahead in most of the swing states.-Flandres (talk) 21:21, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
What about the rape? What about the fact that polls are notoriously unreliable? The polls said HRC would win 2016. What about the fact that Biden laughed at people suffering from student debt? What about the fact a 17 year old died because they were too poor to afford healthcare? If Biden wins, you can expect more deaths because people can't afford the basic right of seeing a doctor. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 21:34, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
I was not talking about the morality of Joe biden, or saying he was a good or even not terrible candidate, I was not saying the daily horror of american life would stop under him. Do try and actually learn my political views before you distort and strawman them. Also, polls have been more accurate this time compared to last time-just look at Michigan.-Flandres (talk) 21:37, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
You never clarify your views, so you expect me to know them? Under Bernie the horrors of daily living could stop. I was raped, I`m not voting for a rapist. I won't, I couldn't live with myself knowing I helped a fucking rapist win power. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 21:39, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
True, I should work on clarifying my views(an essayspace page, perhaps?Hmmm....). Also, no, Bernie would not stop the nightmare that is the USA. All his more noble policies would die in congress or be killed by the courts. He would be a ineffective martyr at best, a cataclysm for my type of misanthropy at worst. There is no way to change the USA by working within the system, Bernie included. Its all a lie people tell themselves so the don't have to admit the cold unfeeling depressing truth(speaking as someone who struggles with depression). Also, I just want you to know unlike most in this thread I am not against you choosing not to vote and respect the basis for your decision. hell, I probably wont vote, just for different reasons than you and Ikanreed.Flandres (talk) 21:47, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, sorry for flipping out on you. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 21:51, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Polls have a confidence interval. So of course the polls don't say "Biden is going to win". The polls also don't say "Trump is going to win" either. I'd say Biden has a small advantage but it's close. I will note that Trump won by emphasizing tribalism. Now he has a (bad) governing record and I'm not sure he can get too many brownie points beyond the converted by blaming his poor COVID-19 response on the Chinese. The makeup of Congress needs to be Democratic for the national health care system to change, so don't focus on just the presidency for that. (talk) 21:41, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Oh my gosh[edit]

Can we please have a conversation about sumfin' good for a change? Like how the inventor of autocorrect deserves to burn in hello?--Delibirda the Annoying Grammar Nazi (talk) 20:59, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

No. We will exclusively discuss how Biden is a fascist and Bernie holdouts are Trump enablers. You should know this by now. ีฝีบึ€ีซีฃีฃีซีถีก (ีญีธีฝีฅีฌ) (ีถีฅึ€ีคึ€ีธึ‚ีดีถีฅึ€) @ 21:33, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Did you seriously come to RationalWiki expecting positive stuff? ะ‘aะฑyะ›uigiOะฝะคire(T|C) 21:44, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
plenty of positive stuff here, and also plenty of sharing of opinion - all of which is good IMO. Sorry if your mileage varies. Aloysius the Gaul 21:49, 8 April 2020 (UTC)